Playing with a conductor

[matricks]

Ah yes, the conductor- the other guy who gets to wave a stick around and tell everyone where the time is [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

Now, here is my question... how many people in here have experience playing with a conductor? I've done musicals before... ones with conductors, ones with just plain old MD's. Now, i am actually doing a musical where i can't hear ANY of the vocals or singers from the pit... only when certain singers are singing can i hear them, and still it is touch and go. I am also using a V-Drum set so volume isn't an issue... i am almost turned down all the way in my monitor.

That being said, i am therefore burried in the music... the full score is the only one i can use to get a total idea of what is going on and get my proper cues from. I tried other means, like getting just a key #2 part and vocal lines... no luck, doesn't keep me tied in enough. So therefore i have all 300 pages of my score, marked to hell with notes and notations of my parts everywhere... highlighters of different colors i have used to cue myself, everything. However, even after all that, i am still having issues.

My issues are that i think i have cheated before and used the vocals and other cues to 'guide' me... now that i have to solely rely on a conductor (cause i can't hear any vocals), i am having problems. There are some fast parts where i am unisoning vocal lines and yet i can't even use my ears cause i CAN'T HEAR THEM, i have to follow the magic wand [img]confused.gif[/img]

It is a very diffferent experience for me and i am wondering what other people's experiences are in this area. I feel torn when i am in the pit... i hear the keyboard player dragging, the woodwinds all over the place, violins rushing... i feel this need to try and pull it together, and when i try, i feel the 'look' from the conductor and it isn' the good kind of look. It is like, do i hop on the parts when they aren't in the pocket and try and lock them in, or do i totally turn off my ears and just follow the conductor? Also, some parts are inverted in certain places, and that throws me for another complete loop! Problem being, i don't know if i am experienced enough to be able to turn off my ears, follow the time being shown to me, and still nail everything... i feel i have to use my ears as a guide, even if they may be deceiving me. I feel like my main role that i have practiced for years, is now in someone else's hands (keeping the time) and i also wonder things like: "Ok, this is dragging, now, do i go with it because maybe the conductor is doing this for the vocalist's sake, so they can get through some fast lines (or something like that), or is it really dragging and should i try and stop it from doing so?!?!

It is hard to feel confident when all the things one practices for years, go out the window. You can't use your ears... only your eyes. Play what is shown, watch the time being given to you, and keep good time but make sure you do it in accordance with how it is being conducted, don't let it drag, but don't fight the tempos changes... etc!

Bottom line... i am rattled and confused! [img]confused.gif[/img]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice or stories they want to share. I thought this would be cake, but now i see different when my 'crutches' are taken away from me!

[Henry II]

Well you've played with a conductor before so you know the name of the game, and groove isn't the name. So, unless you want to get turned around, you have to let the conductor keep the time because the rest of the band is going to follow him, not you. Let your lead hand follow his baton as closely as possible. And if he speeds up or slows down, that's what he wants so don't fight with him, just do it and let him/her lead. Know your part cold going in - no sight reading. And keep the conductor in your peripheral vision at all times.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 16, 2005 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font>

[whagen]

Matricks,

What kind off music is it? If it?s pop oriented, to me there are two types off conductors:
1. The ones that are THE CONDUCTOR, no discussion possible, they count off, they are in charge and it?s usually a big mess (in my experience).
2. The ones that will rely on the drummer/combo to lead the band, the conductor will then just conduct dynamics and cue horns, woodwinds and violins.

I?ve been in numerous situations like this. Talk to the other musicians, can they hear your drums? If they are playing all over the place they probably don?t, and they too have a problem following the conductor.
I would try to get the vocals on your monitor and crank up the drum volume a bit so that everybody hears you. And see what happens.

If there?s no room for change, figure out the conductor?s background. Is it brass, woodwinds or violins that he?s used to?
Brass and especially woodwind-oriented conductors tend to be in front off the music when directing. If you just follow bluntly, you will always be rushing (like the violins). The worst ones are choir conductors; I just can?t play with those.

[XNavyDrummer]

Clearly, I'm not skilled enough to respond to elements of the music that I can't hear!

You need to hear the vocals and others in the group AND they need to hear you (preferably in real time with no delays). That's the bottom line, anything less is a recipe for a train wreck during the performance.

I've worked in music situations where the conductor/leader felt it wasn't entirely necessary for everyone to hear the drums and ignored my requests for a better monitor mix. It's really difficult to be supportive when your tools are taken away. After a few timing disasters, and several rounds of "talks" the changes (corrections) finally arrived and the whole thing sounded much better.

Good luck!

[FlamTriplet]

I just saw a community musical production. I look at it this way. Everyone is sitting down in the audience, no dancing, so speeding up and slowing down happens all the time. The band wasn't that tight, but they kept up with the conductor and stayed with the singers.
If the groove doesn't get to sit, that's ok. Just morph the tempos, play out of time. Just follow the conductor.

[matricks]

Thanks for the advice guys! [img]cool.gif[/img]

I am burned from rehearsal right now, but i wanted to say thanks for the input [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

As far as the music goes, tempos and count-offs being conducted solely by the conductor. It is a 'she' so i will refer to her as such. She is totally conducting it from a classical standpoint, not MDing at all, conducts every note, every dynmic, come ins... all that.

Anyways, all the other musicians are totally glued to her because it is a very large score, with lots of interplay, not to mention the orchestra isn't huge so every part has to be spot-on or else it is the sore thumb. So, i totally have to follow her, no questions. Plus, there are dancers and alot of movements that go on, on stage... i can't see what is happening so i have to just watch her and trust her totally.

It is a total learning experience being this much reliant upon someone else for tempos, count-offs... everything! She did give me a great compliment that i followed her better than any other drummer she has ever worked with and that i am the first one whom she has ever asked to play MORE than what they are playing. So, guess my insecurities get the best of me sometimes.

So yeah, appreciate the feedback... guess i jumped the gun and wasn't as bad as i thought i was at it [img]redface.gif[/img]

Thanks again [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Greaseleg]

I was in a touring show for a few years, and after trying different things, the only way we could be consisent was to have the other musicians follow me, and use the conductor as a reference. Of course, the conductor respected me enough to defer a little bit on the control issue, so I was definitely lucky. If you reduce the number of different ways for people to interpret the time, the better off you'll be. IMO...

[S.P]

I don't know if you buy MD or just have forgotten but tommy igoe did a series over a few issues on playing with conductors, i wouldnt be able to tell you how good it was because i have never been able to apply the stuff nor do i remember what he said but im sure there was something in there for you to take home

[Rhythmatist]

Ask the house tech if you can get a feed off the stage to monitor the vocals. I'm sure if you explain your dillema to someone in authority they'll accomodate you somehow. After all, it's for the benefit of the whole production.